Speaking of baptism and my sunday school class (and since Rick asked for a post on Baptism), my GCP curriculum on elements of worship had us talking this week about baptism. The curriculum mainly focused on the Philippian jailer, but I had the kids read also
- Eph 5:25-26: to show that baptism symbolizes cleansing
- Col 2:12: to show that baptism symbolizes burial and resurrection
- 1 Cor 10:1-2: to show that baptism symbolizes the same thing as passing through the Red Sea
- 1 Pet 3:20-21: to show that baptism symbolizes the same thing as the flood
In my preparations, I was thinking that if we really want for baptism to symbolize the same thing as the flood and the exodus, and burial and resurrection, immersion would be a more effective symbol than sprinkling.
WCF 28.3 says “Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.” I don’t understand how the scripture proofs demonstrate that, and it seems they stop short of actually forbidding immersion. If the divines wanted “rightly administered” to mean “sprinkling is a mandated element” rather than “sprinkling is an acceptable circumstance, which we recommend”, then it seems to me they would have said something stronger than “not necessary” for immersion, like “wrong”. Or they could have just left out the first sentence, and said “Baptism is only rightly administered…”.
I don’t find any mention of immersion in the three forms; the language of BCF 34 doesn’t seem to be aware that there could even be a question: “when [water] is poured on us…when [water] is sprinkled”.
Thoughts?
You’re gonna make me bust out “By Oath Consigned,” aren’t you? Too bad I don’t have it near me right now.
The confession says that it’s not necessary. I think they’re just telling us that the mode is not important. Also, the Children who passed through the waters in the OT (in the Flood, Red Sea, and Jordan) didn’t get wet at all.
What may have been on the Divines minds was perhaps that the threat of the curse symbolized in those water ordeals in the OT has been removed.
By: Rick on November 13, 2007
at 11:32 am
That said,
I think the symbolism of passing through the waters, portraying burial and resurrection, and the sign of the threat of the consuming waters should still be alive and well. But sprinkling does the job. Again, the mode is not the important thing here.
By: Rick on November 13, 2007
at 11:36 am
Amen
By: Echo_ohcE on November 14, 2007
at 12:00 am
There you have it folks — take a picture to show the grandkids. The shortest comment Echo has ever produced. It’s not likely this record could ever be broken, unless somebody can entice a mere 3-letter word out of him:
Echo: Children’s Catechism Q1: Who made you?
By: RubeRad on November 14, 2007
at 9:56 am
[...] think this is a solid answer to the mode question and a good follow-up to RubeRad’s recent post at the Outhouse. All three modes are [...]
By: Hyde on Mode « Not of this World on November 14, 2007
at 11:49 am
Good words from the right reverend.
Note the curious bent full immersion folks take as they seem to think it “doesn’t count” unless you take a bath. But what would you expect from those who don’t have the nomenclature of “sign and the thing signified”?
Seems to reveal also how they view the sacrament (er, excuse me, ordinance) as their act and not God’s. At least, that was how I viewed it when I took my bath…
By: Zrim on November 14, 2007
at 12:35 pm
That’s right; it is important to hold forth baptism not something the believer “does”, or “has done to themselves”, but that the church does to believers.
By: RubeRad on November 14, 2007
at 12:53 pm
God
By: Echo_ohcE on November 14, 2007
at 2:40 pm
Echo,
LOL
By: Rick on November 14, 2007
at 2:58 pm
It’s amazing folks — he’s in an unstoppable zone! How long can he continue:
Echo, is Arminianism consistent with the Bible?
By: RubeRad on November 14, 2007
at 6:51 pm
No
By: Echo_ohcE on November 15, 2007
at 12:58 am
HE
COULD
GO
ALL
THE
WAY!
Echo: Fill in the blank: God named himself to Moses as “__ AM THAT I AM”
By: RubeRad on November 15, 2007
at 10:00 am
I
By: Echo_ohcE on November 16, 2007
at 1:23 am
.
By: Echo_ohcE on November 16, 2007
at 1:24 am
And the crowd goes wild…!
By: RubeRad on November 16, 2007
at 11:30 am
We take you now to the locker room, for the postgame interview…
Female anchor who sued to gain admittance to the men’s locker room: Echo, when you said “Amen”, what was going through your mind; why didn’t you write a longer post?
Echo: What was going through my mind was simple, peaceful agreement. But more important than that was what wasn’t going through my mind, namely an objection.
Anchor: Were you expecting the reaction that you got?
Echo: Well, yeah, because I first got that reaction out of myself. I was just as stunned as everyone else to discover I had nothing to say, so that’s how I knew everyone else would be surprised too, and I knew they’d get a kick out of it.
Anchor: But what about Rube’s question – were you expecting him to try to prompt you to post something even shorter, or was that a complete surprise too?
Echo: No, you’re right, that really came out of left field when he asked me about the Children’s Catechism question. And it was especially nerve wracking to me, because I don’t have that Catechism memorized. But still, I was ready, and didn’t even need to click the link he provided. Thankfully, I knew a family back in Chicago who had used it, and they had taught their three year old son to say it, and I thought it was so cute! So I’ll probably never forget that one.
Anchor: So if he would have asked you a different question, you would have had to look it up?
Echo: Yeah, I guess I really got lucky with that one. I was able to respond in the way he wanted as soon as I read his post. Boy was I relieved when that was over.
Anchor: But then Rube threw you a curve ball, didn’t he?
Echo (sniffling and growing remorse): Yeah, he did. When he asked me if Arminianism was consistent with the Bible, I really wanted to say more. And yet, there was some little voice inside of me, telling me to just say no. I think it was Nancy Raegan. So I just said no, and that proved to be a good move, even though it was somewhat less than satisfying at the time. Looking back, I’m really glad I did, and I hate to think of what would have happened if I hadn’t. Thanks Nancy!
Anchor: But then Rube gave you a fill in the blank, something that we all know is not your strong suit. What did you think when you saw it?
Echo: Well, when I saw that, I totally froze up. You know how bad I am with fill in the blanks. They always confuse me. I ask questions like, what are they looking for? Because maybe they think the blank should be filled in one way, but I’ve got other ideas, you know? So I was really thrown off by that one.
Anchor: But surely this particular fill in the blank was one you could handle. I mean, lots of people would have known that one.
Echo: Well, that’s right. You’re absolutely right. But you have to remember that when you’re under pressure like that, in the hot seat, so to speak, thinking becomes really hard. Stuff that would normally be real easy suddenly becomes totally hard. Fill in the blanks really frighten me and make me nervous. I’m always messing up on those. Fill in the blanks for me are one of those…what d’ya call em?
Anchor: Psychological hang ups?
Echo: Yeah.
Anchor: But you got the right answer, eventually.
Echo: Well, I did. But typing it in was so hard. My fingertips were sweating I was so nervous.
Anchor: But you did type it in, and then afterwards, you added a little bonus, didn’t you?
Echo: Well, I was trying to post just a space, but the website wouldn’t let me. They said that that wasn’t a comment. I had a real shouting match with my computer at that point, and thought about tossing it across the room. Looking back on it, that was kind of silly, because it wasn’t my computer’s fault, but the website itself. And that means that Rube, Zrim, Rick, efwake and Bruce are to blame, not my computer. So I’ll be looking for them to take it up with them. But now I know it’s not my computer’s fault.
Anchor: But you did manage to post a period.
Echo: Yeah, well, when the space bar didn’t work, I just got this idea that maybe punctuation would work. You know how they say that musical geniuses can just see the song all at once, or mathematical geniuses can just see the solution to a problem without working it out?
Anchor: Oh yeah, I’ve heard of that.
Echo: Well, I just saw that period, and I just knew it had to be my victory lap, my end zone dance.
Anchor: And that was your post with zero letters, breaking the all time record, previously held by a question mark from a Trekkie on a Star Trek blog. And now it seems like no one will ever be able to beat that record.
Echo: Right. That was my post. I just saw it. And now it’ll stand forever as the shortest post of all time. It can’t be beaten, unless I can convince someone that a space is a post. So that’s my new battle now.
Anchor: Well, there you have it folks, you heard it here first from the locker room. Who would have thought that so much could be said with only a period. But this newscaster is convinced that Echo’s statement will Echo across the aeons, for future generations for years to come. What began with a four letter word became a profound statement about blogs, what they mean, and their significance in today’s society. Truly, no one has ever said so much by saying so little. I bid you a fond farewell; thank you for watching. Goodnight, and may God bless America, and may you see YOUR…period.
By: Echo_ohcE on November 17, 2007
at 4:04 am
***This message has been brought to you by…
Echo Crisps, the breakfast of champions…like Echo!
Echo: I love Echo Crisps! They’re the only thing on my training table at 10 am! Well, that and a cigar. And coffee, gotta have coffee…and…
That’s right kids, Echo Crisps! And for a limited time, now with a free coupon to Disneyland!
By: Echo_ohcE on November 17, 2007
at 4:15 am
Har de har har!!
That sounds like a lead in to a different sponsor…something about beaches and women on horseback…
By: RubeRad on November 17, 2007
at 8:51 am
!
By: Echo_ohcE on November 17, 2007
at 3:17 pm